Operation Ranger Up

A Tale of Four Heroes

By
Updated: November 2, 2012
S-consulate-compound-in-B-006

By RU Contributor Mad Medic

On October 3rd, 1993, in a forgotten corner of east Africa, an RPG caught a UH-60 in just the right spot, causing the second crash of a Blackhawk that day.  (There would actually be two others that suffered enough damage that they barely made it back to base).  The Blackhawk, call sign Super 64, spun into Mogadishu and landed hard after a nearly 70 foot free fall.  When the dust settled, the crew was either dead or dying and only the pilot, CWO Mike Durant, was able to respond when a mob started to surround his crash site.

At this moment, two Delta snipers—SFC Randy Shughart and MSG Gary Gordon—requested three times to be inserted to hold off the mob until ground forces arrived to secure the crash site. Finally, they were given the go ahead, after being informed that Bravo company 3rd Battalion 75th Rangers was in heavy contact, and 2nd Battalion 14th Infantry was just then mobilizing.  It was made absolutely clear that there was no certainty when help might arrive. They went anyway.

As soon as they were inserted, their bird—Super 68—was hit, and another Delta sniper was wounded.  Super 68 barely made it back to the pad.  All Balckhawks were immediately grounded and no overhead cover could be provided because it was simply too dangerous.  The two men fought their way to the downed Durant Balckhawk.  In the confused battle, MSG Gordon was wounded or killed shortly after CWO Durant was pulled out; leaving SFC Shughart to fight off the mob alone.  It is clear that these two men fought like lions before finally succumbing to wounds.  Both were (posthumously) awarded the Medal of Honor.

Flash forward to September 11th, 2012.  Former SEAL Tyrone Woods was sitting at a CIA annex about a mile away from a US Consulate (different from an embassy) and at about 2140, it

Tyrone Woods

became very clear that the Consulate was under attack.  Woods got on the radio to request permission for him and his team to assist the Consulate.  They were denied.  Twice.  At about that point Woods and at least two others said “fuck it, we’re going anyway.”  They rushed to the compound to evacuate the surviving personnel and the body of Sean Smith who had already been killed.  Keep in mind, the consulate was on fire at this point and these men are in contact while they’re evac-ing the staff.   They sadly couldn’t find the Ambassador in all the confusion.

The rescue team then beat feet back to the CIA annex.  They got back to the safe house at midnight. At this point, it gets a little confusing.  OpSec makes it hard to say who did what, but someone got on the gun that was on the roof, and actually had a laser designator aimed at a mortar team that was shelling the annex.  Over the next four hours not once, but three times Woods called for immediate back up.  At some point the Annex is backed up by a team from Global Response Staff of GRS, which was sent from Tripoli.  Among the crew was another former SEAL, Glen Doherty.

Glen Doherty

By 0400 both Doherty and Woods were dead.  At least one was killed by a mortar, and it’s pretty clear that both men died with their boots on, throwing lead down range.  At least one Libyan militia came to the defense of the US annex, and the QRF inside Libya, which was still trying to secure trans at the airport might have made a difference.  But again, because of OpSec, it’s not entirely clear what happened when.

Now at some point the SecDef said that you don’t just throw troops into a situation like that.  The infamous “fog of war” argument was used.  I must call bullshit on all of this.  If the attack on the Consulate began at 2140, then there were at least three “tier 1” teams within 400 miles that could have been there inside of an hour and a half at the outside.  They had drones flying overhead.  Most of our drones are packing Hellfire missiles, and we don’t seem to have much problem dropping them on pretty much anybody that we consider a terrorist.  They even had at least one AC-130 Specter gunship within 1 hour’s flying distance.

So I must ask: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over.  I am not a politician, so maybe the vagaries of foreign relations might slip my grasp, but the representative of the government of the United States of America was drug out of his consulate and killed.  Why wouldn’t you drop everything and fix that situation most ricky tick?  I cannot for the life of me understand why the troops at the annex were told to stand down.  Twice.  I do not understand why there wasn’t QRF mobilized from Europe the second it looked like the Consulate was in danger.

I don’t buy fog of war.  I don’t buy “confused situation.”  I’ve been on QRF (Quick Reaction Force) more than once for a TiC (Troops in Contact) call.  You can tell by the tone of voice used just how bad it is.  When words like “immediate” or “urgent” are used on the radio, it’s not because some Hollywood script writer is trying to make it sound good.  They’re about to get rolled and they need help.  If you’re on the QRF, you drop literally everything and move as expeditiously as possible to support and evacuate your comrades

Both in Mogadishu and in Benghazi there were assets available that might have prevented the tragic events that happened.  Air support, ground support, even indirect fire support; but because of the “political realities on the ground,” those assets were denied, and some very fine warriors were lost. I don’t care where you stand politically.  This is simply unacceptable.  It is truly lamentable that MSG Gordon, SFC Shughart, Woods, and Doherty had to pay the price for political squeamishness.

They knew what they were risking, and they had every confidence that they could hold out until friendly ground forces arrived.  Woods, his team, and Doherty’s team were not alone, like MSG Gordon and SFC Shughart were, but it is clear that they showed the same level of courage and moral fiber.  They risked life and limb to help their comrades and fellow Americans.  In the end we would expect no less of our brothers in arms.  Both Woods and Doherty died in a pile of brass, with their boots on.  That is what it means to be a Warrior, and we should not soon forget such men.

Comments

comments

51 Comments

  1. Mike Echols

    November 2, 2012 at 10:09 am

    I too was in the Mog. I served as an MP with the 300th MP Co. When we arrived there, we were ordered to stow, and not mount, without a direct order, our mark 19′s. Why? Because it was a “Humanitarian” mission. We lost one brother from our company, and three from our replacement company to an IED. Two others, in separate incidents were wounded……have always wondered what a difference we could have made, had we been able to respond with all of our assets. To these present day heros: YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN!!!! God bless your families, and I will always hold you as heros in my heart!

    • Son of Army Air Corps

      November 2, 2012 at 3:47 pm

      God Bless all you men and women who keep me safe at my computer where I am free to think and say and write what is in my heart… because of ALL of you!

      Rememeber that without darkness we can not see and understand the value and truth of light. And the darkness that is at the heart of this current administration has, by contrast, revealed the light and the goodness within our countrymen warriors. What sacrifice is greater than to give one’s own life?

      The truth of his convictions….
      The depth of his character….
      The strength of his resolve….

      Could the Lord make any finer examples for Man to follow?
      I am truly humbled….Rest in Eternal Peace.

      • Kevin P McQuade

        November 3, 2012 at 11:04 am

        Darkness ALWAYS FLEES LIGHT ESPECIALLY HIS! Where in a totally
        lightless place, does all that darkness go when you introduce LIGHT? Disappears
        At The Speed Of LIGHT! And there will be wars and rumors of wars. LIGHT UP!

  2. Eric S.

    November 2, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Excellent post! RIP Warriors.

  3. Anthony J. Lombardi

    November 2, 2012 at 11:40 am

    As a former MP and current police officer, I can not accept any of the excesses that the President’s administration and the President have said about the Bengasi attack. It was clear to me that day the attack was a terrorist attack and the miss direction that the white house has force feed to the American people is tantamount to a cover up. This election you have a chance to make Real Change, I hope you vote.

    • Bridges

      November 5, 2012 at 7:12 am

      I hope you vote too. The first media source that I heard even hint that this was an act of terror was on an Isreali news radio show. It’s pathetic how our media is so wrapped up in politics that it forgets to look for the truth.

      • JMC

        November 16, 2012 at 12:01 pm

        You probably won’t hear much about it on the regular news channels, but some more reliable ones are saying that Congress has *finally* become aware that the line the WH was spewing about “reaction to an anti-Muslim video” was so much BS. They say that line originated with the President himself. Now they want to know exactly what the Pres knew and when he knew it. Don’t know if it’ll come to anything, but it is finally coming out that our November-Bravo Administration is frantically attempting to cover up this Charlie Foxtrot.

  4. M. Bubba Blume

    November 2, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    This is tough for me in a way, and so very simple in others. I want to believe that assets weren’t available to respond quickly enough to the situation. I want to believe that the situation was too dangerous for those assets to have been effective. I want to believe that our political leadership, and I vote for Obama in 08, had the courage and intelligence necessary to have ordered those assets in anyway.

    I don’t.

    It’s clear to me now after reading this post and doing a little searching on my own that there were multiple assets available that could have responded. And assets available at different levels. Any number of response scenarios could have played out. Unfortunately the worst one did. No response.

    I’m a Democrat. Have been for decades. I believe we, as Democrats, generally speaking offer better solutions to our problems than our Republican brothers and sisters. I don’t believe that Republicans and conservatives are inherently evil and don’t give a damn. I just don’t agree with some of their goals and means of achieving them.

    I’ve already voted. I’m confident that my vote is right for me. I’m confident that I made the right decision. This year I voted for Gary Johnson for President. This article here has confirmed that I made the right decision.

    Leaving an ambassador, the President’s representative, defenseless is in itself indefensible. Leaving men on a battlefield to repel an invasion without support is indefensible.

    I’m a Harry Truman fan. I’m a “Buck Stops Here” kind of political guy. The POTUS is the guy in charge. He gets the credit when things are going well, and should get the blame when the shit hits the fan. Well President Obama the shit has hit the fan.

    And where the FUCK is Bowe Bergdahl? Can we get some outrage over that situation? Can we please effect a rescue so this guy doesn’t become the next Scott Speicher? His family needs him home. He deserves to come home.

    • Thomas Paine

      November 2, 2012 at 12:40 pm

      Sorry Bro but your vote for Johnson might as well been for the Oblamer. Romney is the only solution to the above nightmare. Like it or not.

      Don’t you remember the Ross Perot debacle? We got 8 years of Clinton thanks to that fool.

      • M. Bubba Blume

        November 2, 2012 at 3:01 pm

        A vote for a third party candidate is not in effect a vote for whomever is in power. It is a vote on conscious that I made of my own free will.

        Romney is not an acceptable alternative to Obama. I wouldn’t trust either of them. And I’m still not entirely sure what Romney believes in except lower taxes for the wealthy in this country. Sorry…we’ve tried that for more than a decade. Hasn’t worked.

        I don’t agree with Mr. Johnson 100% by a long shot. But my vote has to mean something. Hopefully it will help build a third party movement in this country. No, it won’t happen overnight and probably not within a few decades. In fact, I doubt I’ll ever see it.

        But my 2 year old niece and her brothers might reap the benefits of this vote. With any luck I’ve planted a tree in whose shade I will never sit.

        • BWSlayer

          November 2, 2012 at 7:16 pm

          Imbecile……..Gary Johnson…….SMH

        • Phosgood

          November 2, 2012 at 8:37 pm

          A third party at this point is naive at best. The Republican party must be taken over OR taken down. This can only be done from the inside.
          You sound very young so you have time to make a difference.
          This time you passed it by.

          Semper Fi

        • Dave M.

          November 3, 2012 at 4:54 am

          Bubba, you need to check your facts. Romney is talking about a reduction in the tax rates, but also limiting the deductions for people who itemize. This will disproportionately affect the rich. He has promised no increase in taxes for the middle class. Don’t believe the Obama ads or the left-tilting mainstream media.

          I’ve voted for Perot (a man of principle who supports our military in many silent ways), and for Ralph Nader, so I know where you’re coming from. But Johnson is not viable. Do you really want four more years of this?

        • jeff

          November 3, 2012 at 10:34 am

          I think that anyone who shares or endorses M. Bubba’s sentiments should watch this short video by Bill Whittle:

          http://youtu.be/wPjBXufufUU Or, if that link doesn’t work:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPjBXufufUU&feature=player_embedded

          Thank you Mad Medic, for this report. I’ll try to post a link to it from my blog tout d’suite. And thanks for honoring those heroic men.

          • FOWG

            November 3, 2012 at 1:45 pm

            Thanks for the link. It puts things into perspective very well.

    • Jackie Fenolio

      November 2, 2012 at 3:10 pm

      Bubba, I guess I am glad you voted your conscience. But anybody that votes for someone other than Mitt Romney is voting for Obama. Haven’t you read how Obama is COUNTING on that? All the hundreds of thousands of votes for someone other than Romney is giving Obama another 4 years. I am so very very sad to think of America being gone in a few days. I can’t sleep. I want my children off of this soil when the FEMA train rolls. We are only safe with MITT.

  5. George R

    November 2, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Thank you for posting a really well written document. These Men were/are heroes and should be treated as such. If politics played a role in as to why they weren’t given the help they needed, the SOB’s responsible need to pay, not only with their career, but with criminal prosecution. It’s disgusting to think that America’s finest had to die because some dumbass couldn’t or wouldn’t make the call. I call Bullshit on them too, we can’t just let this “go away”.

  6. Quickburn

    November 2, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Politics goes out the window when that first round whistles by your head. The only suitable word that comes to mind is “Fuck”. You can’t hide the truth forever. The truth will be their monument.

  7. Tom S

    November 2, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Thanks for putting into words what I’ve felt since this went down. A Spectre on Station + 2 Experienced Navy Seals W laser = many DEAD Tangos! I served with Randy Shugart at 2/75 and I’ll say…. Seals Woods and Doherty, you’re in good Company!

  8. littlebytesnews

    November 2, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    The CIA came out with their version of a timeline, not sure if Patreaus is trying to cover his butt or what but the buck still stops with Obama. He’s commander in chief and should have known things were escalating in Benghazi after attacks on the UK Ambassador and the Red Cross as well as previous attacks on the consulate and additional security were denied. He, Hillary, Dempsey, Panetta at minimum need to go down and be charged with treason and complicity in the murder of these American heroes!

  9. merighen

    November 2, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Thoughts from an outsider who respects your community…

    You and others who have long experience as insiders have clarified for the rest of us everything from the ethos of the warrior community to details of what kind of assets were likely available and how they could have been deployed. Thank you for so doing.

    What seems so elusive is the “why” of this situation. At some point we will know, even though we shouldn’t have to wait. It is frustrating to me to know that we have developed the appropriate assets, including trained warriors (willing volunteers to go to the danger), specialized equipment designed to effectively operate in this kind of situation, and were promised after 9/11 that institutions and agencies would work in concert to prevent and protect. For you warriors, the frustration must be excruciating.

    Some of us can’t do much more than push back via the voting booth. But all of you can continue to push back by sharing your knowledge, just as you were willing to commit yourselves to physically protecting us.

    A few days early for Veterans Day wishes, but thank you for your service.

  10. David

    November 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    I don’t think I have ever heard of a more selfless act in my 42 years. These men were our greatest assets. This cannot go unchallenged. Truth must prevail, no matter what the cost. My heart goes to their families. You guys are always in our prayers, and thank you for your devotion to our country. DCJ

  11. MWAnderson

    November 2, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    Reading this article, it suddenly dawns on m that the SecDef’s statement has a huge obvious hole in it. If there wasn’t enough information to send in help, how and why was the GRS group from Tripoli, including Doherty, sent to help the CIA Annex? Wouldn’t it have been too dangerous for them too? Wouldn’t it be less dangerous to send in a well trained and equipped group of SEALs, Delta, etc. than to send the GRS?
    I hate all the lying and covering up of their own assess that seems to be the SOP for this entire administration (and beyond). Where is the integrity and honor? I’ve never been more disappointed in the government than I am right now.

  12. Casey

    November 2, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Mad Medic, thanks so much for this article. Comments from folks like you who have actually been engaged in operations similar to what happened in Benghazi are a tremendous help.

  13. Alessandre

    November 2, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    I am so grateful to you & all the others who volunteer to protect me & this country. Thank you all for your service. And thank you for the work you are doing to help uncover the crime. This is the first time, & I’ve read scores & scores of posts & articles, that anyone mentions that Ambassador Stevens was dragged from the ‘facility.’ Everyone assumes he died of smoke inhalation but as far as I know, there have been no autopsies made public. The truth of this is ugly, very ugly. It’s horrific to imagine BHO, Clinton, Panetta, et al. watching Ambassador Stevens being dragged from the ‘facility’ but it’s possible. And the ‘facility’ wasn’t a consulate because we don’t/didn’t have a one in Benghazi which only creates more questions.

    Of this I am certain, you all are invaluable in helping reach the truth. Your bravery continues because you’re willing to expose the lies & help us make sense of a confusing situation. Thank you again. We who benefit by the gift of self you each make cannot possibly realize how fortunate we are.

  14. Random Events

    November 2, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    For me it’s all about choices. Of course we could have reacted and saved lives. Like it or not we are still a force to be reckoned with and anybody who chooses to fight with us, anywhere in the world should anticipate the immediate response of a nation that has a long tradition of protecting its people. By choosing not to react in this situation, we sent a message – who it was intended for I have no idea, but it clearly was not meant for me. I pray that the message was not “feel free to take on and kill our people because our nation won’t fight back because we’re scared” The big question for me is who won’t we protect next?

  15. Army Mom

    November 2, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Lack of planning, lack of diligence, lack of fortitude, lack of guts in Washington.
    Damn the peace-pansy bureaucrats & politicians to hell that allowed this to go down on their watch! Some day they will have to stand before God almighty and face justice for the loss of these lives and the lies and cover up afterwards. And where the press seems to be failing us, God will not!

  16. Ground Pounder 2-222FA

    November 3, 2012 at 12:25 am

    We need a government that will back our military no matter what, especially in situations as these. The Mogadishu incident, General Garrison had request certain elements for protection and was denied, because the Government said it was to high profile. I ask this, “who the hell cares if it’s high profile if it gets the job done and protects our troops?” I don’t think the families and friends of all those fallen soldiers would give two shits if something were high profile as long as it protected their loved one.

  17. WHEEL

    November 3, 2012 at 2:14 am

    I’m mad they didn’t get picked up. They knew the job. I’m sad for their families. Rest In Peace Warriors!

  18. Jaxbchzaskar

    November 3, 2012 at 9:45 am

    It is a tragedy these brave men are gone. But we should never let them be forgotten. They are Real American Heroes.

  19. SGT ALDE

    November 3, 2012 at 10:46 am

    dang!!! even in a video games things like this happens. I just finished Medal of Honor (Limited Edition) in the last part of the game they were denied to rescue their fallen comrades, but they did it anyways and all of them suffered the consequence’s. God bless to all our fallen brothers and God bless their families. For that I made this poem in 2003 in Iraq and turned it to an Army marching and Running cadence: (All Right reserved to SGT ALDE 92F)1/61 CAV 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)

    I am a person with a spirit brave and free
    No matter what’s the situation you can count on me
    From land, sea, and air..I’m a soldier and I ‘ll be there

    If their wrong I’ll do what’s right
    When its dark,and I’ll share them light
    So many things that i been through.. I’ll
    fight for me and you, cause I’m a soldier.

    So many wars that I been gone World War two and
    World War one, Korea, Vietnam
    Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Cause I’m a Soldier.

    There is no dust , snow or rain.
    This Soldier is Fit and train
    They sleep tight day and night
    cause I’m here and ready to fight!!
    I’m a soldier.

    Wearing this Uniform
    I know someone’s is safe at home
    I will be right next to you
    we will fight until its through.
    Cause I’m a soldier

    Serving my country
    I’m so glad, but sometimes its kinda sad
    Love ones waiting for my Hug, but sometimes just a folded flag!!
    Cause I’m a soldier!!

  20. Tom Treadway

    November 3, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Neither Johnson nor Paul are fools and I particularly believe Ron Paul would make an excellent president.

    Doesn’t matter what I think!!!

    Simple fact is, any way you want to look at it, voting for anyone other that Romney is in effect a vote for homObama.

    I will definitely vote for Romney.

  21. DVG93

    November 3, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    merighen …..Actually two whys. Why did this happen and why the coverup.

    The powers that be seemed adamant about not providing help. This article seems to relieve the arguement about whether effective help might have been provided. It was very doable.

    Call it a looney thought, I don’t care. ( Hey it is. ) I still think it was very possibly a political set up to get the blind sheik back to Obama’s muslim brotherhood friends. ( I’m sure many here have read my comment at blackfive )

    This article doesn’t do a thing to disuade me. It seems to provide more evidence that the laser being used to target the mortars should have received a lethal assist, but someone at the very top ( Obama ) refused.

    • merighen

      November 3, 2012 at 3:00 pm

      Thanks, DVG93. Yes, as you advise – there are two whys.

      In the face of these two whys, the lack of information disseminated as well as an apparent lack of trust by many that the truth will ever be known encourages, perhaps even forces some of us to try to find a motive. So if you are having a thought/theory some may call loony, think on!

      In my daily life, I often rely on the maxim: never assume malice when stupidity is an equally likely explanation. There seems to be a lot of unintended consequences these days. Is that stupidity at work: not bothering to think through all possible outcomes and/or refusing to listen to one’s appointees who do?

      • DVG93

        November 3, 2012 at 3:22 pm

        merighen I’ll try to remember your maxim. As it is I was reading a book by Brian Haig when a thought popped into my head. I kinda was reconsidering whether it was a gutless decision or an authoritative one.

        I sometimes base conclusions on instincts, but never illucidate them and often forget the instinct itself after having made the conclusion.

        So the instinct is this was an authoritative command not a reticent command. I don’t sense reticence which would indicate a gutless command. This command I sense had purpose.

        MM’s article confirms this to myself anyway. It indicates the resources were on station yet withheld at a critical moment when all was not lost.

        Toss in the change in command of two senior officers to enable an assertive command and I just have a hard time believing cowardice or incompetence are the reasons for the decision to not supply support.

    • Davod

      November 3, 2012 at 3:07 pm

      “This article doesn’t do a thing to disuade me. It seems to provide more evidence that the laser being used to target the mortars should have received a lethal assist, but someone at the very top ( Obama ) refused.”

      I recall reading that Obama (Valerie Jarret) denied approval for the Bin Laden mission twice before Pannetta launched the SEALS and he and Hillary informed Obama and suggested he approve the mission.

      If so, it seems clear that Obama will approve the use of force eventually.

  22. Leslie Godwin

    November 3, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    A vote for anyone but Romney is a vote for the candidate who apologizes for America’s strength to our enemies, leaves warriors to be murdered because of political self-interest, and wants Israel to give up territory it won in war (that it needs to keep civilians safe) to terrorists who want to commit genocide on her people.

    No politician is perfect, but the perfect is the enemy of the good. It is critical for us to vote for the candidate who isn’t afraid to use the words “terrorist” or “Islamist”, and who understands that our military is a force for good in the world, not some kind of colonialist tool.

    Your concerns about Romney aren’t well thought out, and aren’t nearly strong enough to warrant a vote for Barry. I hope others will be more serious about their choice than you were.

  23. DVG93

    November 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Thinking further along….

    OK there was a purpose. What purpose could withholding protection fullfill? What would have been the logical outcome if the two seals had not intervened?

    It is likely Stevens would have been captured. So if one can conclude Obama’s orders to stand down result in the capture of the ambassador when it is preventable, then why?

    I have purpose, motive and means.

    I had a history proffessor at college that proclaimed our country has been blessed with outstanding leadership in times of need.

    I hope so. I pray we will soon.

  24. Daddybob

    November 3, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    Our hope is in people all across this country that don’t have nearly the stones you guys have, but don’t like to be bullied by ‘Chicago Style’ politics. I know who they are. They’ll nod their heads yes, when polled, or asked by bullying union leaders, bosses, family and friends … then they’ll walk calmly into the voting booth, pull the curtain, and vote against all that. And if they’ll do that, that’s enough stones for us!

  25. Uncle Draggi

    November 4, 2012 at 12:12 am

    First, thank you for the article. It was =very= informative, on many levels.
    Second, I’ve just read all of y’alls’ comments. Some are far more ‘revealing’ (about the writer) than I think you intended. Rather than commenting on some of them, I’ll simply say that everyone is entitled to their opinion and leave it at that.

    =NOW= .. having said that, I’d like to point out a couple things that many of you will actively not want to hear, much less actually -think- about; last time I looked, swimming with the crocs in Cairo was neither very productive nor very smart. But, if you -reeeaaally- want to swim in that river, knock yourself out.

    Yes, it looks to me like “someone” made a -deliberately- FUBARed decision. Yes, in the final analysis, the ‘blame’ always comes to rest with whomever is sitting at the top of the food-chain. But, I read -a- =lot= of history, especially military history, and I’ve noticed a few things .. including ‘uncomfortable’ things. Many German and Japanese generals, for example, were prosecuted (and executed) for “war crimes” that their subordinates committed that the generals didn’t even know about. Their actual ‘crime’ was being on the losing side; many of the allies were just as ‘guilty’ but not a word was said because they “won”. Fact, not hyperbole.
    Okay, so what does this have to do with the two situations in the article? In my opinion, in the Mog, someone tried to ‘play nice’ in a place and scenario where that simply didn’t belong. Let’s face it, Clinton didn’t know or understand what a ‘military reality’ was — he was thinking in terms of politics and “humanity”. Personally, I would =not= have sent in gunships (at first), but would have started with enough napalm to keep them warm for several freezing nights afterwards! -Then- I would have sent in the gunships to “suppress” anything that looked at us funny — like a size 14 combat boot on a cockroach. And then troops to clean up anything still needing it. But, then, I’m a vet .. and to me “humanity” and “playing nice” only apply if =BOTH= sides are doing it. Otherwise, I’ll give “humanitarian aid” to the survivors, who’ll need and appreciate it.
    In Benghazi, “the fog of war” was simply a convenient excuse. Let’s face it, we no longer have people like Bradley, Patton, Rommel, or any number of others we could all name. What we have now are ‘politicians’, and, yes, that includes in uniform. -A- =lot= of people, both ‘locally’ and further up the food-chain, didn’t want to make a decision that -might-, -possibly- become a political liability. It could have been out of simple “CYA” or it could have had more (deliberately) malicious intent .. and until I become telepathic, I can’t tell you which it was.
    However, I’d like to point out something people seem to have deliberately ignored, so far. =ANY= executive can only be as effective as his subordinates allow him to be, be it a corporate CEO, a battalion or regimental commander .. or a president. And don’t say the exec can simply get rid of a subordinate who isn’t on board with the rest of the team. Every single one of us knows, =especially= if you’ve been in the service, there are all sorts of ways to appear to play the game .. but actually undermine it or him/her: do nothing without ‘orders’, wait juuust a bit in sending information up or down the line, word your report so you say one thing but it sounds like you’re implying something else, yadda yadda yadda. And if/when the shit hits the fan, nothing can or will be said, because: it’s difficult to pin-point who’s responsible, admitting you were ‘played’ undermines your authority, or even it’s all just part of The Great Game, where mere people don’t really ‘count’.

    Oh, and before you blow my comments off completely, consider this — many of you think Romney will “save” this country, even though he’s flip-flopped more than a fish out of water. You think Romney has the best interests of the military at heart, even though he plainly and snidely includes them in his infamous “47%”. You think Romney has the best interest of the people and the country at heart, in spite of the fact that he has consistently =demonstrated= the =only= interest he’s -ever- had .. is for himself. Yes, the facts are available for anyone to read .. unless you actually believe what Faux News and Fat Flush tell you; i.e.-ignore the facts and only believe what -we- tell you. And, -most- unfortunately, don’t even try to deny that for far too many people, including, I would guess, some of you here, the biggest and most important issue is simply the need to get that “boy” out of the WHITE House….. [>And for this I bled for my country and buried my buddies? What a fucking waste.<]

  26. homespun123

    November 4, 2012 at 9:06 am

    While I understand people who question the rational of voting for the lesser of two evils, I have a serious conflict voting for Obama. I myself have never been in the service but I have a deep respect for those who have including my own father. If you have a suspicion that Obama denied support or shirked his duty to act immediately in Lybia, then how could you ever vote for him? If he is re-elected and the worst happens and he is impeached, are you willing to support Biden as your new president? What if they are all guilty of recklesness or at the least incopentance? Will you sleep well knowing who holds our country in their hands? Just food for thought.

  27. M Baker

    November 4, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Thanx for the info.

  28. DVG93

    November 4, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Unncle Draggie…..Thankyou your holiness for your exaulted opinion.

    I know right where to put it.

  29. Antonio Aguilar

    November 4, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    My first deployment was one long QRF. We went to a lot of situations without any clear picture of what was going on. We went because that’s what soldiers do when other soldiers are in trouble; information be damned. You go, find the guys shooting at you, and shoot back. You don’t ever, EVER, leave another soldier pinned down and trapped, begging for help because it’s too risky!

    I can’t remember how many times in Iraq I’ve seen things go down exactly how this administration said they shouldn’t. This article is dead on, and the actions of this administration disgust me.

  30. deployedtabob

    November 4, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Hey, assholes, this is not a political debate!!! Get off this thread if you’re going to argue politics. Four heroes gave their lives, and you douche bags want to argue back and forth on the presidency? Look, simple fact is, is that war is a bunch of old men arguing, and young men dying. I see it damned near everyday. Our ROE is so tight, a gnat couldn’t get through it. THAT’S why men and women are dying in this hell hole known as Shitcanistan. Never leave a soldier behind, I read that somewhere, but, it seems to me like that’s exactly what we did to these warriors (SEALs). God forgive me for saying this, but I honestly think that a prerequisite for becoming president is that you come out here to the fight, for a month, and see what we live with everyday. Let that bullet snap by your head, or that IED go off right next to your truck, or see one of your buddies go down under insurgent fire. Come on, the invitation is open. Then, I can GUARANTEE you, that our ROE will become a lot less strict, and we will come home a lot sooner.

    From one doc to another, I applaud you for this article, my friend.

    “Kill ‘em all, let their fuckin’ god sort ‘em out!”

  31. outlaw nsdq

    November 4, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    We were special, because we said, I’ll GO…….
    When others sit down we stepped forward.
    We were not drafted, we volunteered.
    We joined the special ops community because we wanted to do more.
    We said I will not leave my brother behind, and I lay my life down to prove the point.
    We said not on my guard…….

  32. Mark Richardson

    November 6, 2012 at 2:15 am

    Where are the Benghazi Survivors?
    Why have they not come forward?
    If I were a Reporter, I would not sleep and I would spend my last dime trying to interview them.
    So, where are they?
    Locked up?

  33. Jason

    November 6, 2012 at 10:56 am

    The most important thing to remember is that the people who let our fine soldiers die, will have to stand before Jesus and give testimony to their actions. I think they will suffer greatly for what they have done, but I am not the Judge. Nor (according to Jesus) should I judge. They will be Judged by Jesus. Thank you Brothers for sacrificing for my freedom.

  34. pleaseexcusetheblood

    November 6, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    “It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived.” – GEN George S. Patton Jr.

  35. SPC Demotable

    November 8, 2012 at 10:38 am

    This is why I hate politicians and love the military. The politicos are worried about covering themselves, while those of you who have served at the lower levels only give a shit about why we didn’t do everything we could to save American lives. I usually put the higher-ups (generals and such) in there with elected officials as “politicians”, since many of them have truly forgotten about being at the bottom of the totem pole. Dave Hackworth called them “perfumed princes”, ticking off the years to the next promotion, and rightly so.

    Honestly, I feel that I would have said “fuck higher, grab your shit, let’s go”. I could accept that courts-martial with a clean conscience, knowing that I went balls-out to protect fellow Americans, even in the face of orders to stand down. Sure, I would have a big boo-boo on my records. But at least I could sleep at night knowing that I had done right by myself and the people on the ground.

  36. SGT Inthearmy

    November 14, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Bravo Spc.
    I would take you down range with me any day then stand next to you at OUR Courts Martial. We all know how politicians think and act so why the surprise here.
    To be honest my biggest complaint and greatest disappointment is that the news stories aren’t about the U.S soldiers who defied orders to protect the guy to his North and South. Hard to believe that in this day and age with all that we’ve been through that, that there are still guys and gals with flags on their right sleeve that are still concerned with the patch on their chest.

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